Take On The fire
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I liked the song very much!
…even if…I don’t agree about ai.
That’s what I wrote to my friends about it:
“ Still on creativity: the close connection between music and mathematics has always been known, however many consider it almost sacrilegious that computers (used without problems to solve problems of mathematical theory, not just to do the math!) can teach us something about music.
But if art were only a “spiritual”/“emotional” phenomenon, why did the great painters go “to a workshop” to learn the trade?
So is there a technique in painting? Of course there is. That sometimes is learned mechanically, by imitation…”0 -
ha ha ha Tom loves politics
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Hey there Skandha,
Thanks for the interesting comment. I've been having this discussion across the boards. Our own Elvis can attest to that 😉 I've made many arguments but let me put it in another way.
For the longest time, I've been arguing that the primary function of art is to communicate and evoke emotion. While technique can enhance this, it should always serve the emotional core of the work. A technically perfect song lacking emotional impact is, in my view, less successful than a piece with raw emotion, even if its technique is less refined. Focusing excessively on technique can stifle authenticity and the emotional impact. The most impactful art is often from a place of raw, unfiltered emotion, and attempts to over-engineer this through technical mastery can lead to a loss of genuine feeling. Imagine the Rolling Stones polishing their songs until they were technically perfect. In my humble opinion, technique is a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is a tool to convey the emotional vision onto the chosen medium. Over-reliance on technique can lead to sterile and formulaic work.
AI used as a "tool" can be misleading. If someone is using AI to create a melody, lyric and music; and then to call it their own creation, I think is disingenuous. Lately, I've heard that SUNO can take your song and make a cover for it. Now there is a fine example of where AI can be used as a useful tool. The good Lord knows my productions need more help than I can pay for.
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NO! I hate politics........ but I am compelled to write the times as I see it.
As I once stated, "For good and for bad, it is amazing what people are capable of, giving them a little power."
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oh comon now , you like the circus . just kidding ya Tom . But you're not stopping AI as a tool . That ship has sailed . See all them kids on there , tell them your logic
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Here's where I agree you. if use Suno to do all, then that's not art. that's paying the smart kid in class $10 /mo to do your homework. However, if you stem out the music from the vocals, then lay your own vocals over the track, then I' ok with that, because its no different than buying a sound pack for your DAW.
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Live tracks sound real , I guess you can sing over AI tracks , if it's in your key , that could be a problem . I kinda doubt kids on suno ( millions of them) care to hear a adults lecture on AI lol
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Tom and I will never agree on politics, I suspect, but we can agree on more important things, like art🙂
He mentions the Rolling Stones. Think of the riffs that begin their songs and on which their songs are built. AI can serve those up - it is basically theft, after all - but it can't come up with them in the first place. When it can (which probably won't be long), we're all screwed. And yes, imperfection is what gives art it's humanity. That millisecond or two off the beat. AI will be mimicking that soon enough, and, in fact probably already is.
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Well your not stopping AI , its a done deal . I've never heard blantly stolen riffs , messing and playing on Suno for fun . AI does not effect me , since I record live tracks , But it is a genius idea . My politics is George Carlin , I don't get involved with that circus . Home studios ruined most recording studios , but I see no complaining on that.
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I wouldn't care if AI was to forever remain a tool.
The hydrogen bomb was made to be a "tool" to denture all war. We all know what happened next...... and the threat still remains.
So be careful throwing that "Tool" word around.
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Be careful throwing home studios around . lives were ruined , always room for debates lol
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Let's see $49.00 plug in , real violin player . out of work on your home studios... as bad as AI if ya want a comparsion , Well were to cheap for all that .
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😔ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Ha ha ha0
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@IronKnee
I agree, but it depends on what you are searching for. For example, if a poem is good, it is already emotional. If you take a Shakespeare text, it is art. If then you create a perfect song over it, it is like a good frame for a painting: it improves the experience…I don’t know if I explained well. I don’t mind if the music come from pc, i listen to the human words. In a deeper joyful way….0 -
We're beating a dead horse , AI is here to stay and will improve with new technology . Your job to beat robots , Make better recordings and stop crying the robots beat me . Session players will work for food, its competition, welcome to the real world, it's 2026 . (Time moves fast ) not 1980. its music not hydrogen bombs.
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And you are beating that drum way too loud. No one is arguing if AI is here to stay, but you. And no one cares if AI can make a better song than you. No one really cares.
What the concern is, down the road, we will lose ourselves in some nefarious embrace with a soulless thing. When we start following it as if it were an omnipotent intellectual deity......my fears will be confirmed.
Well... everyone listens to music differently, skandha. Like I tried to explain... IMHO, it is the emotion that captures the heart, and it just might be the technique that enhances the emotional experience, if done well. Most people listen to music not to analyze structure and format....they listen because there is something they can hang their hat on (so to speak) 😉
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I said make better recordings Tom if your worried about AI songs , No big deal man, Yes you care or you would not be taking about it .
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If I sounded like them robots , I'd be much better off
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I listened to a lot of your songs You are good , you don’t need AI0
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Hell, at this point, I've forgotten what the hell the song was all about!! Where did it go?! Correction: I'm on page 2...gotta go back to page 1 and listen again...don't mind me; I'm forgetful and too immersed in my own sh.....! NOW, I WEMEMBER!!
GREAT SONG just as I thought from the start! And NO AI needed whatsoever. There will ALWAYS be a market for HUMAN HEART!
Renee 😍
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@IronKnee “ Well... everyone listens to music differently, skandha. Like I tried to explain... IMHO, it is the emotion that captures the heart, and it just might be the technique that enhances the emotional experience, if done well. Most people listen to music not to analyze structure and format....they listen because there is something they can hang their hat on (so to speak) ”
Totally agree. But you can think of 2 kind of art: first, the song. For which I agree with you. Second, the poetry in music. For this last form of art, i focus more on words. And the fact that the ai made a beautiful dress to the words amplify my emotions (which would be present EVEN if there was no music).
Anyway, let’s come back to your song, really beautiful!0 -
Well.... to quote a line from one of the great AI songs of the era: "If it makes you happy"
😁
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Do you know the definition of an "optimist?" An optimist is a guy who spends his last ten dollars on a WALLET. 'o)
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As the lyric clearly points out, EVERY new technology involves risk. In every new invention or new idea, there are ALWAYS some unintended consequences that we fail to foresee. Sometimes there are intended consequences which are hidden from the public.
So, the lyric (in that regard is true and valid. But not (imho) complete. There IS always risk with new technologies. There is ALSO risk in denial of the technology, refusal of the technology, and/or dismissal of the technology. I'm still not sure how I feel about the A.I. 'revolution,' but I've lost my initial fear and hope about it. For me, it's a tool that I'll use until I understand it well enough to understand, then I'll evaluate whether the risk of accepting it outweighs the risk of ignoring it.
Seems to me that deciding before I understand what it is, and what it does would be a little risky for me.
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Apparently everybody you uses AI sold their soul to devil on the crossroads and going to hell to burn forever . I'm not sure where the robots go , Maybe Walmart on a sale of circuits
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My "beef" with AI isn't actually with AI. It's the people who use AI as a "TOOL" to create a melody, a lyric, and a music without anything but a prompt.....and then to go on and claim ownership as the author. Us old folks aren't really affected... we have already spent the years developing our creative outlets. AI is going to attract the young people like a fire at a beach party......the temptation to let AI do the creating will rob us of our initiative, and self-reliance.
Be careful with that fire... by the time you are done evaluating, it might be too late 😯
C'mon Elvis.....my point was never that users sold their souls. They actually give them away 😉
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Well its just a song , I don't take that serious anymore
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Bottom line... it is just a song. I'm just kina tired of songs about nothing. I write them.... and I'm still writing them; but the political and social happenings in our time is what is more important to write about.... certainly, more interesting.
And I want to thank everyone, here at Vanilla. for the rousing conversation. It never got out of hand, like it has on other sites. And for that I'm thankful!
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I reckon , all hit writers say stay away from political songs , They just piss people off , Feel good songs leave a better taste in your ears . But you like them ideas like Renee , No problem
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Howdy, Stranger!