I read with interest the entire thread on "what everyone thinks of A.I."
I myself don't have any idea what I THINK about it. I know what I FEEL about it, (fear and hope) but I habitually allow myself to keep an open mind until my THINKING catches up to (and/or surpasses) what I FEEL. At that point, (when research and information has had a chance to change emotional knee jerk reactions) I'll kind of decide what I think and feel about it.
I think there is a huge difference between what any of us thinks, and what we feel, and it's often a mistake to confuse one with the other. In my case, I'll be listening to A.I. generated tracks. Trying to get a handle on how they work, and probably experimenting with it. I doubt if I will have reached any real conclusion about how I think and feel for another year or somewhere close to it. The fear of something new is very real in me, and the probability that A.I. will greatly increase the competetion amongst the already existing and constantly growing community of songwriters is very real in me. It will take a good long time before I can make a reasonable decision about what I think and feel without those two fears factoring in.
Along with the fear based emotions are the "hope based emotions" that suggest maybe I can stop relying so heavily on talented and educated collaborators. Those "hope based emotions" will need to subside before any 'decision' I make about A.I. can be based on sound logic and information.
Additionally, the fact that it will take some time before we actually begin to hear the true extent of what A.I. generated technologies can produce and just how good it will be. There is probably a GIGO effect to A.I. (Gargabe In, Garbage Out) and at some point, when highly talented and musically educated people begin SERIOUSLY experimenting with it, we'll all know a lot more. Might make it even more frightening, OR it might turn out that it isn't as threatening as we initially fear.
Point is. . . it's too early to be making decisions and drawing conclusions. We ALL (in my opinion) need additional information.
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I'm over AI , it's a handy tool to add to your tool box . Getting upset over new technology is a waste of time . Bend with the robot wind.
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when highly talented and musically educated people begin SERIOUSLY experimenting with it, we'll all know a lot more. Might make it even more frightening, OR it might turn out that it isn't as threatening as we initially fear.
they already are
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What AI will never be able to do?? Create or enhance the exhilaration and joy a human being gets from playing and singing. And the deep satisfying mental involvement in writing the words and music to a beautiful song. 😐️
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Thats true , but if theres $$$$$$$$ involved , they will follow the money . I'm not sure JOY is the right word . You can spend a lot of money and time to get a song presentable to release . Satisfaction might be , if you get it right as you can , it can take weeks .
We stole a melody from AI , but cut it with live tracks of course , its a tool .
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I say that strictly as an amateur. To me music is about exercising my imagination, my voice, my guitar playing and my creative mind. And the joyous camaraderie playing with friends. I have no interest in gaining fame or fortune from it. And so for a guy like me I say AI will never replace what I get from music.
For the pros...yeah things will likely be changing. And maybe the $$$ won't be as good anymore. Change is the only constant. Like I said in a previous post...Beyonce is attempting to change what country music is. It seems that country is already sounding pop and hip hoppy. To me music has become less interesting and taken a down turn over the last twenty years or so. So it wouldn't surprise me if AI takes modern music over.
Whatever the future...my friends and I will still get together on Sat nights and have blast playing and singing. And I'll still challenge my creative mind with writing unique tunes...without help from AI.
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Your better off , its a tuff biz
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trying to just have some fun and satisfy the inner need
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A.I. is of the Devil. Period. Anything which feeds upon and destroys the human in all of us should be destroyed...by us as God Almighty's army here on earth. Cheers! Because the Devil is just getting started. That said, we are all blessed with free will. Use her as you please.
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"Anything which feeds upon and destroys the human in all of us should be destroyed." I agree, and I would put religion at the top of the list of things "which feeds upon and destroys the human in all of us." :)
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I've heard AI is the devil a few times , it's nothing more than a new tool like 9k plugins you buy for $49.99 . BUY Now !!!!.
Gods not in the music biz , if he was everyone would be famous with a mansion in Malibu . Plan B on this chase your dreams in a door greeter at Walmart.
You do the math on how long you got to live . If it's 60 years old . You got 20% of life left to do some music . what else you got to do watch bad Net Flix movies or George Clooney on politics .
Hey he got a hit , yeah but he's dead . Well you Iive forever on the net . Though I'm not fond of not hearing it being dead .
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@HoboSage yes, I refer to it as ReLIEgion. Why I don't do Xmas nor any worldly helliday for that matter. But each to their own. Free will is a marvelous thing!
Renee
And while I do struggle with the music aspect of songwriting, when I put my name on it, I KNOW it's ALL mine regardless of how it comes out. And that's a feeling that CANNOT and will not be replaced by demonic robots, EVER! ☺️
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I think AI has nothing to do with God. it is and remains a programmed machine. it can be a useful tool. to solve writer's block. it's a brainstorm in a box. which can sometimes be useful. I looked at it too. in different styles. It made me laugh, super exaggerated country style. reggea mannn.so no maybe in the future. but music is something human. like someone said. Just the fun of making music won't spoil the fun. so just do what you want to do and have fun
greetings remfire0 -
What I wonder is whether AI will compell people who play real instrumentals (guitar, piano, flute, ect...) to stop playing them or NEVER learn to play them.
My primary instrument is guitar and the ability to create something new with my own mind and hands is neat.
And there's a certain satisfaction when picking it up and strumming chords and noodling, even when I'm not writing.0 -
What AI will never be able to do?? Create or enhance the exhilaration and joy a human being gets from playing and singing, And the deep satisfying mental involvement in writing the words and music to a beautiful song.
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I've been tinkering with Suno.com and Udio.com. I'm carefully refraining from making any judgements until I've given it a fair chance and learned how to actually utilize it as well as it can be utilized by me. The part of it in which the software just writes the whole song is just strange to me. And what I've learned about inputting a lyric and letting the software write the instrumental is that it's VITAL to give the software clear and cogent instruction and 'pre-craft' the song in an intelligent manner if you want to get a reliable output back. I've also learned that the vocal melodies provided often have some pretty good ideas, but can't (yet?) find a reliably artistic (i.e. sounds right) cadence to get through the song, even to the music that is provided by the software. So far, any positive results I've gotten can just be categorized as 'blind luck.' I have only one song that worked well without any 'post-crafting' and re-doing the vocal. I'm not skilled enough (unfortunately) to 'post-craft' the instrumentals - even if I could get them in MIDI format so that I COULD manipulate them. Suno has the capacity to get me the songs with vocals removed. . . which is helpful. Once again. . . I'll be a good long time evaluating and learning before I make any judgements about the true capabilities. THEN. . . I'll evaluate how I feel about it.
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For what it's worth. . . I've been reliably informed by programmers I know (both of whom have judgement and honesty I trust) that the Suno and Udio sites are "not actually Artificial Intelligence." I suspected as much after tinkering for a short time, and asked them about it. Additionally, as far as adding instrumentals to vocals, the Suno and Udio have not (so far) seemed to me to be any more powerful and/or useful than the "Microsoft Songsmith" software I was using by 2010. While it was probably less capable of producing fully produced songs than the current 'so called A.I.' sites. And the Songsmith gave me output that was fully modifiable in MIDI format. For anyone whose interested, one side effect of my tinkering has been that I've found a site that will remove vocals from almost anything. That's hugely valuable to me since I have old collaborations of my own that had other collaborator's vocals on it and was largely useless to me. I'm now searching for a reliable way to convert multi instrumental tracks from Wav files or Mp3 files to MIDI.
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I'm not sure what they meant by saying "not actually Artificial Intelligence."
It clearly isn't done by humans, it's accomplished in mere minutes. It's a fully automated process run in software on an architecture commonly referred to as Artificial Intelligence. Perhaps it's the "intelligence" part they are complaining about? It certainly isn't equivalent to human intelligence. It has no consciousness. It's an algorithm not a mind.
I was a programmer myself, but I don't see how their statement is helpful. It seems to sow distrust and verge into conspiracy theory territory. You don't have to like what it produces, nor want to use it, but arguing over the label seems counterproductive.
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I like what AI produces that's the problem , I have to compete against them , that's a bigger problem . I work weeks , AI 2 seconds
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What they are saying is what I first noticed that made me question if it was actual A.I. One minimum standard for true Artificial intelligence does what real intelligence does. . . learns from it's mistakes and improves on it's own without further input from programmers. . What made me originally question it was that if I asked to software to give me 4 versions of the same song, the first two would uniformly be better than the last two. It should have been reversed. I'm sure that the algorithms and programming are highly advanced. . . but that does not mean the program's learning is growing on it's own. If it doesn't grow and learn and improve with time on it's own, it is not true A.I. Additionally, while the software on the site is doing some truly impressive things, I have to say that (given what I need and how I need it) it's more POWERFUL than the old Songsmith software available 13 years ago. . . but (for me at least) not yet more useful.
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I have used Suno for months and the same faults that were there in the beginning are still evident.
Even now, it is a crap shoot whether you get the correct gender vocals you prompted for.
Artificial yes...Intelligence...no!
Sid
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its perfectly auto tuned voices , Hard to compete against that . How they produce a radio radio song in 4 seconds is beyond me
Them sites are cash cows for some CEO. Them robots get it right , if you spin it 50 times lol. Yell at a robot , you repeated verse 2 . As computers get more advanced , hard to say in 20 years what they'll sound like . Flyin cars are just helicopters , I'm not impressed
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Hell, I can even have deep satisfying mental involvement writing the words and music to an ugly song. Take that AI! :)
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If AI can do a radio ready song in 4 seconds , it's actually better than human intelligence. Hate it or love it , it ain't going anywhere .
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I've listened to several hundred A.I. songs now, and "written" six. One thing is clear. "Garbage in, Garbage out." A poorly written lyric with no real flow to it will not work out. The best A.I. song I've yet heard is by Tom Tognaci (Iron Knee) from this forum. Some friends set it to the A.I. music, so he's not sure what made it work so well. Of the six lyrics I've had A.I. write music for, three are good ideas and good beginnings, but only one of those three is catchy without a great deal of re-interpretation. Most of the limitations of the ones that didn't turn out at all were about a failure by me to provide good instruction regarding mood, instrumentation, genre etc. I was just playing, and didn't know how much thought should have gone into them. Additionally, the software does not seem to find cadences that seem obvious to me and provides some that I can only describe as "extremely in-artistic." That's no problem because Suno provides a way to remove the vocals and just vocally re-interpret the vocals - (hopefully) adding some artistry back in. The music is (given how carelessly I provided instruction) routinely serviceable, and sometimes WAY better than what I had in mind. BUT. . . it's inconsistent. One line will be far superior to what I would have done, and the next will be (again the only word I can find) in-artistic. To the extent that I can 'fix' what is wrong (without being a musician) they are in every case at least useful. Extremely useful for adding variety to a somewhat flat vocal because it provides alternate ways of singing it that I can use to create some 'depth' to the vocal. The one song from my lyrics that I found artistic enough front to back is (due to my inadequate instruction) not really complete. Hopefully, I'll learn that I can re-interpret it through Suno without abandoning the original Suno/me collab. From listening to so many other songs. . . I'll say that in addition to the "Garbage in - Garbage out" factor, it's mostly a 'crap shoot' (gamble) for what turns out and what does not. Most of the 200 or so songs I've listened to (parts of) are so non-memorable and inartistic that they aren't worth the investment of time. About one in 30 are worth listening to from front to back. Hard to say if that's because of the software or the GIGO factor. But some really good 'looking' lyrics have missed being set to memorable music.
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Yes, it is quite inconsistent. I've experienced that directly, and have heard others say the same.
I think the AI music models are still improving. It will be interesting to see where they are say 2 years down the line.
What I'd really like to be able to do is give it a song I've written and recorded badly, and have it regenerate it with the same melody and style, but performed well.
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FWIW, before you decide to upload your lyrics to Suno, you probably should have a good understanding of just how broad of a forever non-revocable license you are giving Suno with respect to your lyrics. The "fine print" in any platform's Terms of Service matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlGIxLH1K-M
Suno is being sued by labels and publishers for, without permission, copying published recordings and songs in order to "teach" the Suno algorithm. You think Suno won't use your lyrics for its algorithm to generate lyrics for other Suno users when by uploading your lyrics to Suno you give your permission for Suno to do that? Just sayin'. :)
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I doubt the million of users care about any of that , if the robots are stealing now to get their song, why would they care if robots steal from theirs ? The law suits are aimed at AI sites stealing major label voices . I doubt they're going to sue 9 million songs and win . AI sites are not going away , if Sony had any pull they'd be gone already
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120,000 songs a day are loaded in music stream platforms . About 4 million a month. 48 million a year
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Elvis says "Hate it or love it, it ain't going nowhere." That is absolutely correct and perfectly spoken in plain English. The idea that our like or dislike has ANY bearing on whether this becomes a useful (or even excessively useful) tool is self delusion. One relative of mine has absolutely refused to make ANY attempt to understand what A.I. music is, can do, and does - but without attempting to understand it, HATES EVERYTHING ABOUT IT. The reality is that her understanding MIGHT allow her to reach an accomodation to it, but her hatred of it has no chance to influence anything. What A.I. IS is what it is. What it can become is what it can become. What it isn't is what it isn't. Refusing to learn has no chance to influence what will happen.
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